Case File: The ORT Illusion – A Documentary Dissection
The time has come to dissect what is probably the most overhyped entity in the entire Type-Moon mythos, second only to the Servant wank.
Yes, those same Servants, low superhuman guys who die to trains and struggle to dodge paintballs, with a few niche conceptual weapons that people claim can somehow stand up to actual top tiers or reality warpers. In most communities, whenever someone asks, “Who’s the strongest character in Type-Moon?”, truly powerful characters (like basically anyone from Kara no Kyoukai or Nanaya Shiki from Tsukihime) are completely overlooked in favor of far less impressive figures.
And among those, no one gets more blind hype than ORT, often spammed alongside Arcueid and the usual batch of Servants, despite being one of the most misunderstood and overrated beings in the entire franchise.
So, is ORT really such a big deal? Is it truly the strongest being in the verse, as many claim?
Of course not.
Let’s look at the actual facts, no headcanon, no mistranslations, and see how it really stacks up.
Chapter 1, the actual evidence:
The first step in any comparison is obvious: What has the character actually done?
And well… here’s our first problem. ORT has done nothing of relevance.
In the older canon, ORT doesn’t even make a proper, tangible appearance in any Type-Moon work. All we know is that it crash-landed on Earth and instantly killed a Dead Apostle Ancestor. That’s it. That’s the whole feat list. Nanaya Shiki did the same while literally being on his deathbed:
So ORT's best confirmed feat is on par with half-dead Nanaya Shiki.
Not full potential Nanaya. Not even Ryougi-tier.
Just deathbed Nanaya.
Impressive.
Now, what about accolades? Surely a being hyped this much must have at least a few sources describing its terrifying power, right?
Well... not really.
Turns out there’s one source that describes its abilities in detail. One. And a secondary reference in the 27 DAA list from Tsukihime, which just summarizes that first entry. Oh, and Kagetsu Tohya has this to offer:
"ORT. Lives in a South American village. Has a form similar to a spider."
Riveting stuff.
Of course, this alone isn’t necessarily damning. More sources ≠ more power.
If a single quote clearly establishes a character’s capabilities, that can be enough.
I'm not one of those narrow-minded fanboys who thinks a character is “featless” just because they aren’t blowing up planets every second. I’m well aware of things like narrative focus.
The reason I bring this up is because... ORT fans project this mindset on others.
They’re often the same people who dismiss Void Shiki as “featless”, despite the fact that she literally states she can blink the universe out of existence, and the entire narrative's coherence breaks without her being near-omnipotent. But when it comes to ORT? Suddenly, no feats and one vague quote = “multiversal god-being.”
This lack of self-awareness is... kind of incredible.
ORT has less hard evidence supporting it than any other top-tier in the setting. Even Prime Roa has more going on. So when you see fans lashing out defensively, just know: they’re not mad at you.
They’re just emotionally uncomfortable with the fact that ORT’s “status” in the verse is built on a house of cards, not hard lore.
"But no!" you may shout.
"ORT is said to be the strongest in Type-Moon!"
And to back this up, people often quote this bizarre set of notes:
Base concept being "hopeless despair."
If this were an RPG, ORTy would be the secret hidden boss that's way stronger than the final boss.
"WTF man, did you losers even think about game balance?? omgwtflolz"
Nah, that's your fault for messing with him (?).ORT can’t understand Earth culture, but it's thought he (?) can simulate the creatures he preys on.
That said, even if he says something human-ish, it’s just mimicry.
If you’re looking for romance, that’s your personal problem.Apparently, the lifeform with the "strongest flavor" on Earth—ORT-wise—was the former 5th Apostle.
Just moving around causes the trees nearby to crystallize, forming a crystal valley. (Spider web?)
Bonus: The designer liked someone else's take on the crystal river more than his own, so he went with that.
Conclusion: A “super UFO.” The “strongest aggressive creature.” “Not even Arcueid can beat it!”
Someone call Ultram@n! - Character Material: ORT
…and I have to ask: Are you okay?
This is the most transparently non-official “evidence” I’ve ever seen. It's a designer rambling about their visual idea of the character, throwing in memes like “someone get Ultraman” and “WTF man,” making it clear it’s written in a playful, non-authoritative voice.
Even in this jokey blurb, it never claims ORT is the strongest being in the entire setting; ORT is only called “the strongest aggressive creature,” which is vague enough to mean “scariest animal in the zoo.”
And the Arcueid in question? That’s her current, weakened form, the Roa-corrupted version limited by bloodlust and instability. Even at her max in this state, she’s just a powerful Demon Lord, not the perfect reincarnation vessel who rivaled Type-Moon himself. Human Roa alone was helping True Ancestors kill Demon Lords.
Are we seriously hyping up ORT because it can outmatch a corrupted, downgraded Arcueid?
That's like bragging about beating a champion in a coma.
Using that kind of commentary as ironclad canon is just intellectually dishonest, especially when the actual stories don't back it up.
For some reason, a portion of Type-Moon fans are uniquely allergic to basic media literacy.
Source material > design notes. Always.
Then they’ll bring up another line:
"The extraterrestrial life form ORT, which arrived from space before the Common Era and landed in South America, was first revealed in TYPE-MOON's setting book 'Character Material' distributed in 2006. Since then, ORT has been passed down as the 'Strongest Being in the TYPE-MOON World.'
In Part 2, Chapter 7 of FGO, players will fight this fearsome enemy. The decisive battle is a 'one-man raid battle' in which all the Servants in the player's possession are mobilised to fight, and it can be said that the strength of the enemy is worthy of the name 'TYPE-MOON World's Strongest.' Here, we will reveal the final draft of the ORT design, the ideas that led to it and other secret settings." - TYPE-MOON Ace Volume 15 - ORT's Designer's Comments
And to that I say:
First, it’s just saying ORT has been passed down as the strongest; meaning it’s a rumor, not confirmed canon. It’s just a hype train built on hearsay that somehow spiraled out of control. You could even say ORT caused a real-life Tatari manifestation of hype lol.
Second, Marketing hype ≠ canonical truth.
This is pure ad copy for the FGO version of ORT; who, by the way, has nothing to do with the original Type of Mercury. FGO is a prime example of the infamous TM canon split, rewriting the multiverse, gutting Kara no Kyoukai’s lore, spawning the Tsukihime Remake, and outright contradicting stuff like Angel Notes.
If you want to understand that split better, check out this other thread.
What we have here is a flashy reimagining meant to hype up a mobile game boss fight, not a power-level statement intended to override decades of established metaphysics. Even if you take it seriously, it doesn’t apply to the older canon where the real heavy hitters dwell, like the original Types, Ryougi Shiki, and metaphysical threats to whom ORT wouldn't even register.
Moreover, the FGO ORT itself is explicitly described as a “subspecies,” inferior to the genuine ORT. This means the hype around it is misplaced, praising a diluted, lesser version.
The "strongest in Type-Moon" guys:
Meanwhile, KnK characters casually bypass perception by simply 'appearing' like horror entities (Araya), surpass the biological and physical limits of any living being (Lio and then Ryougi dismembering him faster than he could process; all while she herself was on the verge of death), or move within the absurdly tiny instant where space itself is being rewritten, but hasn't yet registered your presence and applied the changes. (Ryougi vs Asagami):
The mage moves. If Shiki left an afterimage of a white kimono in the darkness of the night as she ran, the man melted into the night as he approached his prey. A demon-like speed that didn't even let you grasp the process of him approaching. He stops, next to the immobile Shiki the mage's black coat flaps in the air. Shiki was unable to respond to the mage's unfelt approach. She had been looking --- she had been looking at the man advance towards her, but she can't perceive that the man is standing right next to her --- Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
The enemy's prowess had escalated beyond recognition. Unnatural speed and precision surpassed any creature of flesh and bone." —Kara no Kyoukai, Chapter 7
The third time, her leg was torn. A sickening squelch followed as concrete soaked with blood. The claws, embedded deep in her bone, stained her foot and the floor, making even standing excruciating. Indeed, merely standing brought agony. Blood loss clouded her vision, her body teetering on the brink of collapse.
The end was shockingly abrupt. As Lio's arm lunged for her neck, she severed it. Without hesitation, she then severed both his legs. With a swift, merciless motion, she plunged her knife into his body, which momentarily floated like a balloon, before slamming him to the ground. The knife, a cruel tombstone, pierced his heart. He gasped once, a final breath, and then it was over. Lio's face remained frozen in shock, too stunned to comprehend the fate that had befallen him as his life functions ceased. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 7
Lio's corpse showed no bleeding; the vibrant crimson staining the warehouse floor was solely hers. With limbs torn and flesh ripped, her life would likely be measured in mere minutes. Or perhaps, as Ryougi Shiki, she could potentially extend that time until help arrived. But she made no move. A sigh escaped her lips as she relinquished the knife, collapsing onto the cold floor.- Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 7
"Ah," she breathed. She extended her breaths, severing the nerves in her bleeding wounds. Perhaps she would be able to conserve enough energy to call for help by resting like this. "But... what's the point?" she murmured, her gaze drifting skyward.- Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 7
Fujino's eyes glimmer. The left eye for a rotation to the left. The right eye for a rotation to the right. Taking Shiki's head and left leg as the fulcrums, she twists. A strange sensation occurs instantaneously. The moment Shiki feels the invisible power upon her, she jumps explosively to one side - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 3
In short, FGO’s ORT is a heavily reimagined version that differs vastly from the original Type of Mercury introduced in Character Materials and earlier Type-Moon works. Unlike the original ORT, which passively rewrote physical laws and posed a metaphysical threat beyond comprehension, the Lostbelt ORT exhibits surprisingly mundane limitations:
- It took approximately 12 hours to cross a tube the length of the planet; a feat comparable to.... a commercial airplane.
- Kukulkan, who is made from ORT’s own heart, is hyped for moving at supersonic speeds... yet never breaks the sound barrier (what?).
- It was defeated by Camazotz, a being whose only “hax” is immortality; a slightly enhanced version of Nrvnqsr Chaos. Fun fact: Camazotz is a human deity based on bats and related creatures, but all forms of predation in creation are subordinate to Lio Shirazumi, who awakened his Consumption Origin (the actual cosmic principle of predation and adaptation, so don't even try to tell me this is inferior to random species-related worship), becoming a pack of beasts beyond physical limits that can regenerate and rewrite his body’s internal makeup, meaning the Lostbelt ORT lost to a discount Lio.
- The original ORT’s metaphysical dread and reality-altering presence are nowhere near matched by the Lostbelt iteration, which functions more like a conventional raid boss with clear, exploitable weaknesses. Its attacks are purely energy-based: cosmic rays, massive tendrils, planetary-scale destruction, solar storms, and so forth. While undeniably powerful, these remain fundamentally tied to energy, matter, and physical laws. This pales in comparison to the true top tiers of Type-Moon, whose methods transcend most people’s understanding. These higher-tier entities don’t just unleash massive explosions; they alter the very concepts underlying those attacks. Zelretch can send them to a different timeline; other Types enforce their own home-laws to prevent their use; Prime Roa tweaks the numerical values defining those phenomena; Demon Lords can turn the probability of those attacks failing to 100%; Ryougi/Nanaya Shiki can kill the very idea that those attacks exist; Araya Souren can simply stand there and freeze the capacity for ORT’s movement and expression within his barriers; Asagami can bend ORT’s entire body and attacks, as her distortion ignores material properties and reduces space to a borderless void manipulated at will; Kirie can force ORT’s subconscious impulses, including its drive to act, resist, or even cease, to manifest as immutable physical laws, trapping it in a state where contradictory urges become real and unsustainable, ultimately breaking its coherence and will to exist, leading to self-destruction.
So, the commentary claiming ORT “was passed down as the strongest” clearly implies uncertainty about its true origin; basically hearsay rather than confirmed canon. The same commentary also promises players a foe worthy of that hype in FGO, yet the actual Lostbelt ORT falls far short, as outlined above.
In other words, this is just marketing hype propping up a diluted reimagining openly described as a “subspecies” of the genuine ORT.
Simply put: irrelevant.
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Now that we've shown there’s actually no definitive statement declaring ORT the strongest in the verse, let’s finally look at the one quote that actually describes its capabilities; and how even that gets overblown by fans:
Introduction - ORT
Details unknown. Apparently landed in South America before the Common Era. As an attack-type lifeform, boasts power on a level far beyond anything else. The former 5th Ancestor attempted to capture it and was killed in seconds. Afterwards, treated as an Ancestor when it was discovered to have vampiric like properties.
Alien entity some 40 meters tall covered with outer skin that is harder, more flexible, more temperature resistant, and sharper than any other substance on the surface.
Said that as long as the battleground is earth, it has no weakness.
In addition to the ridiculously high attack parameters of the main body, it also possesses a special ability similar to Reality Marbles - Crystal Valley.
Explanation - Crystal Valley
Invasion by a horrifying but beautiful landscape.
While some magi and the 27 Ancestors control internal worlds called "Reality Marbles", the one that ORT has is on a completely different level.
ORT is a "visitor from another planet".
By just him (?) being there, the Earth is changing to the environment he lived in. That is, the rewriting of physical laws, a leaking of his "alien order/system".
If man is that which destroys the planet, then ORT is an invader that paints the earth world into an alien planet.
Well, thankfully ORT's a good-for-nothing spider that doesn't intend to hurt the planet...but....well, it might just be because he's (?) not interested in invading
But alas, of course nobody would understand the circumstances of ORTy, so bigshots from a lotta agencies try messing with (him) thinking that they'd better do something about Mr. Dangerous Lifeform as soon as possible......and end up getting annihilated instead.
Source: ???
Ultimate One of Mercury (?).
Companion to the Ultimate Ones that appear in the Sci-Fi short story Notes.... though due to some hick-up, this clutz has landed on Earth a bit early (about 5000 years or so).
The truth is... it's actually not one of the "ultimate species" that intercepted Earth's SOS signal, or something.
By the way, the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception can’t kill it. It does not possess the concept of death, so you'll have to destroy it physically. - Character Material: ORT
As I already anticipated, its one and only direct showing is killing a DAA, which is nothing of noteworthy in this context. The one thing that does save ORT’s dignity is its trump card: Crystal Valley.
Crystal Valley is essentially a personal Reality Marble, overwriting the local environment with ORT’s alien order, rewriting physical laws to those of Mercury and forcing the world to play by its rules. It’s a legitimately strong ability and the main reason ORT qualifies as a top-tier threat.
The problem? This is standard equipment for the real top tiers. If you’re Origin-awakened, a Type, or a True Magician, reality rewriting is just your morning coffee.
Before we pin down ORT’s actual standing, let’s further dismantle a couple fan-favorite claims:
"ORT is stated to possess an outer shell harder and more durable than any material on Earth, with "extremely high" attack parameters."
with outer skin that is harder, more flexible, more temperature resistant, and sharper than any other substance on the surface.
Said that as long as the battleground is earth, it has no weakness.
In addition to the ridiculously high attack parameters of the main body, it also possesses a special ability similar to Reality Marbles - Crystal Valley.
Yes; it’s harder, more flexible, more temperature-resistant, and sharper than anything on the planet. It’s stated that, on Earth, it has no weaknesses. Impressive… until you remember that the actual heavyweights can alter the very laws sustaining ORT’s body. The other Types, Origin-awakened beings, and True Magicians don’t care about “numbers”; they rewrite the concepts that make those numbers matter. Even Demon Lords can twist probability so ORT’s “indestructible” shell suddenly crumbles, rusts, or becomes weightless.
The only reason ORT even survives at that level is because it can also warp reality, countering their alterations with its own rule-set, making those fights a contest of precision and adaptability, not brute force.
"See? It says its power is on a completely different level!"
As an attack-type lifeform, boasts power on a level far beyond anything else.
Yes… as an attack-type lifeform. I can read, unfortunately. That means it outperforms anything else in its category, which is expected from an alien organism with its own physical laws. Those statements are written from the perspective of Earth-native life; of course it would seem absurdly overwhelming. But among beings for whom physics and causality are playthings, ORT isn’t some mythical “strongest being.” Its threat lies in its alien framework, not in some untouchable supremacy. Cut the wank.
In fact... here is what the quote also says:
Source: ???
Ultimate One of Mercury (?).
Companion to the Ultimate Ones that appear in the Sci-Fi short story Notes ... though due to some hick-up, this clutz has landed on Earth a bit early (about 5000 years or so).
The truth is... it's actually not one of the "ultimate species" that intercepted Earth's SOS signal, or something.
— Character Materials: ORT
There’s a bit of context to unpack here, especially because of how this line has been handled by some English translators. The original Japanese clearly states that ORT is not the strongest Ultimate One, implying it’s still part of the group known as Ultimate Ones (Types), but ranked lower in strength:
「実は、地球が発信したSOSサインを受け取る最強種ではなかったりする。」
“Actually, it’s not the strongest species that receives the SOS signal sent from Earth.”
You can verify this yourself with any tools you like; it’s clearly the original intent of the quote.
This immediately debunks the hype: ORT is confirmed to not be the strongest Type, and the Types themselves are not top-tier anyway: even Archetype Earth, for example, was killed by Ryougi Shiki in Actress Again.
However, many English translations, especially on popular wikis, have deliberately twisted this into ORT not being an Ultimate One at all. This isn’t a simple mistranslation but a purposeful reinterpretation designed to fit the later Grand Order retcon.
The original text neither denies ORT’s status as a Type nor removes it from that classification. It only clarifies that ORT is not the strongest among them. That subtle but critical distinction preserves ORT’s place in the lore while realistically situating it among other Ultimate Ones.
Instead of rewriting the past to fit the present, it’s far more honest to acknowledge canon splits within the Type-Moon multiverse. Accepting multiple canons, rather than twisting older material, leads to a clearer, more respectful understanding of the lore.
Ironically, the mistranslation actually benefits my argument by outright claiming ORT isn’t a Type at all, which would put it below them, but this is simply false, so I’m not using that version. The original Japanese directly confirms that ORT is an Ultimate One, just not the strongest. That alone dismantles the “strongest in Type-Moon” myth, which is the point of this thread.
And before anyone claims I’m being dismissive of English sources, I encourage you to check the raws yourself: the wiki interpretation simply doesn’t hold up without bias toward the Grand Order changes.
Furthermore, the idea of ORT being an Ultimate One was already confirmed in the older canon, well before any FGO-era reinterpretations. In Notes, the very definition of an Aristoteles (Ultimate One) is “the highest-ranking species of a planet capable of hearing another planet’s SOS.” This is stated outright by Type-Venus:
If ORT heard Earth’s SOS, it automatically fits this classification. The Character Material profile states it did; the “mishap” that brought it here early is explicitly described as happening after it intercepted the signal.
And there’s another smoking gun: the Tsukihime Dokuhon Plus Period entry. This guide flat-out labels ORT as “Type Mercury,” the formal title given to each Ultimate One (Type Venus, Type Jupiter, etc.):
5/ ORT Details unknown. Seems to be a mutant species that crash landed in South America sometime before the Common Era. As an attack-type organism, its power is on a completely different level. It uses the encroaching reality marble, Crystal Valley. Its appearance is similar to a spider’s. The former 5th Apostle recklessly tried to capture it, and was instantly annihilated. Afterward, it was confirmed to possess vampiric traits, and is now treated as an Ancestor itself. Type Mercury. - Tsukihime Dokuhon Plus Period- Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors [Term]
So, between these three points:
- The Character Material profile confirms ORT intercepted Earth’s SOS.
- The definition from Notes makes hearing the SOS the core criterion for being an Ultimate One.
- The Dokuhon Plus Period guide names ORT explicitly as “Type Mercury.”
The conclusion is unavoidable in pre-FGO canon: ORT is an Ultimate One; specifically Type Mercury. It’s just not the strongest of them.
The question mark in Character Materials near Ultimate One of Mercury (?) indicates ambiguity or uncertainty, not a denial of ORT’s status as an Ultimate One from Mercury. Original materials clearly classify ORT as Type Mercury and confirm it received Earth’s SOS signal, just not as the strongest among them.
Using the question mark as justification to remove ORT from the Ultimate Ones group is a misinterpretation and a retcon unique to Fate/Grand Order; it contradicts earlier, explicit canon.
That’s why the “ORT isn’t a Type” argument only works if you discard the original sources in favor of later retcons. And that’s fine if you want to follow FGO’s continuity, but you can’t pretend it was always that way.
This is my problem with these people: they cling so desperately to one unified canon when that’s blatantly impossible, especially with Nasu making declarations like this:
> Nasu: When I wrote Kara no Kyoukai, I felt resistance towards so many things—society, entertainment, culture—and it was my motivation to write the story. Now, I am thrilled to be writing from a place of gratitude, though with just a touch of sadness. It feels like the old Nasu Kinoko has passed on. I suppose you could say I've gone under a heavy detox, and feel much more virtuous now (laughs). - Kara no Kyoukai Movie - Nasu Kinoko Interview
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To summarize, ORT is an alien lifeform whose outer shell surpasses the durability of any material on Earth. More importantly, it operates under entirely different physical laws, projecting those rules over the environment through Crystal Valley to override Gaia’s natural order. This makes it effectively untouchable to anyone bound by standard physics, meaning all but True Magicians or beings awakened to their Origin.
However, this kind of reality rewriting is a common trait among top-tier entities; Crystal Valley is simply ORT’s method of doing it. Its “attack-type lifeform” designation only highlights its efficiency as an invader within that framework, not supremacy over the verse’s higher metaphysical powers, many of whom can redefine what “invasion” or “attack” even mean. The character material even directly confirm that ORT is not the strongest Type.
Beyond these traits, most of ORT’s reputation rests on promotional hype or designer commentary contradicted by actual story events. Now, let’s place it where it truly belongs in the hierarchy.
Chapter 2, placement:
Alright, if ORT isn’t the most powerful being in the verse, then how strong is it? Simply put; it’s Type-level. Standard for its kind.
Its primary gimmick is Crystal Valley, which rewrites physical laws to match its own system. Impressive, but this is something all Types can do effortlessly. From Angel Notes:
"Are you going to fight that?"
"Looks like it. The Knights are assembling too, and the military's eager to do it. They're aiming to at least change The Cross's curse. If that's it, then the possibility isn't zero."
"It's impossible. Everyone doesn't understand what an Aristoteles is. That isn't a life form on this planet. There is no chance of winning."
"How could that be? In reality, we have already defeated 3 Aristoteleses. If we have more fire power than them, it's not an unstoppable opponent."
"I don't know about that. They can't be judged by this planet's common sense. That's why even a concept of death doesn't exist for them. They won't stop until they achieved their objective." - Angel Notes
Our enemy were species that ruled over the alien branches of another planet, where out common sense doesn't apply. - Angel Notes
All Types disregard Earth’s “common sense,” including concepts like death. They can freely redefine reality as they see fit. In Angel Notes, it took conceptual weaponry and True Magic users to even kill an Ultimate One.
Type Venus resembles a colossal, carnivorous plant that literally roots itself into a planet, spreading spores that consume and transform its environment. This is not mere physical destruction: it rewrites the ecosystem on a fundamental level, digesting entire planetary surfaces and altering the biological and geological makeup. Its power echoes the Flood from Halo in its parasitic, all-consuming nature, making it an unstoppable force of planetary-scale metamorphosis that defies Earthly notions of life and death. Venus doesn’t just damage; it remakes the battlefield as an extension of itself, creating a living system that absorbs and converts everything in its path, fundamentally altering the natural order.
Type Jupiter takes a drastically different approach: it is a vast entity composed of black photon gas, capable of infinite expansion. Unlike physical matter, photon gas consists of particles of light moving at light speed, granting Jupiter unparalleled mobility and invulnerability. At its core lies an artificial sun that emits immense energy, incinerating anything in its vicinity. Jupiter dominates not through conventional reality warping but through sheer scale, raw energy output, and relentless, self-sustaining expansion. This cosmic storm envelops and overwhelms opponents beyond typical physical constraints, existing outside normal parameters and continuing to grow and exert influence independently of external laws.
Type Saturn wields a terrifying and abstract form of power: its body is a massive, cross-shaped flying fortress made entirely of an illuminating mineral shell. It bombards the battlefield with raining cross-shaped electric impacts that explode upon contact, annihilating everything around. These attacks don’t just cause physical damage; they reshape the environment by triggering earthquakes and leaving “tombs”, permanent scars on the landscape that symbolize finality and irreversible destruction. Saturn’s power enforces conceptual death and spatial alteration, transcending ordinary physical laws. This absolute finality alters reality itself on a fundamental level, marking its territory with unbreakable, metaphysical consequences that defy Earth-bound understanding of battle or control.
Crimson Moon himself also showcases incredible reality manipulation feats. Zelretch, wielding unrestricted control over time via the Second Magic, capable of hopping between parallel worlds, enforcing outcomes, rewriting history, and altering events across timelines, only barely managed to defeat him:
4/ Wizard Marshal Zelretch
One of the five existing magicians. Also called Zelretch of the Jewel.
Despite being a Dead Apostle, he cooperates with the True Ancestors. Arcueid thinks of him as a sort of grandfatherly servant. He toppled the Crimson Moon in battle, but had his blood sucked at the last second and became a Dead Apostle. However, even after becoming a vampire his position as a magician stayed intact, and he traveled around the world to various countries where he would take disciples and uniformly ruin them all. - Tsukihime Dokuhon Plus Period: Twenty-Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors [Term]
Then there’s Altrouge, who is relative to Type-Moon, creating the abstract phenomenon Tatari from something as vague as human anxiety:
He made a contract with Altrouge of the Crimson Moon entailing that he would turn into TATARI until the next Night of the Crimson Moon in 1000 years, but… - Melty Blood Official Strategy Guide
A member of the 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors. One who tried to embody eternity not as a living being, but as a phenomenon. Tatari. - Melty Blood Act Cadenza PS2 Manual
Here, Altrouge redefined existence entirely, turning a living being (Zepia) into an abstract concept (Tatari), then anchoring that concept into Gaia’s reality so firmly that it naturally manifests as a phenomenon. Functionally, this is no different from what Crystal Valley does. In fact, Altrouge’s feat is arguably more flexible, shaping human-centric abstractions (normally outside nature’s domain), whereas ORT’s focus seems limited to replacing natural laws with those of Mercury.
In short, Crystal Valley is simply ORT’s personal flavor of a universal Type ability: to ignore the planet’s laws and impose its own. ORT is impressive, but it’s playing in the same league as every other Ultimate One, not above it.
Conclusion: ORT is “just” a Type: immensely powerful, vastly above most of the verse, but utterly outclassed by the true top tiers. If you want the full breakdown, see my other thread on Arcueid; just CTRL+F “no, even Archetype Earth is not the strongest character” and apply the same logic to ORT, who is already weaker than Archetype Earth.
-So before closing the thread, there are just two loose ends to address: both already covered in my Arcueid thread, but worth restating here for how they obliterate the baseless ORT wank.
Chapter 3, the myth of immortality. Why ORT would not survive a fight with Shiki:
One of the most persistent myths surrounding ORT is the claim that it is “immune to the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.” This idea is flat-out wrong. It comes almost entirely from anime-only secondaries who don’t understand how MEoDP actually functions and who misinterpret a single statement out of context:
"By the way, the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception can’t kill it. It does not possess the concept of death, so you'll have to destroy it physically. - Character Material: ORT"
This quote acknowledges that ORT lacks the concept of death and thus cannot be killed by MEoDP. However, it also says that it must be destroyed physically, which means this limitation is irrelevant in combat scenarios.
What do I mean by that? Araya Souren was identical to ORT in this regard; he too lacked a concept of death:
The mage's discourse continues."As a reference, I do not die. My origin is 'suspension'. Someone who has woken to their origin becomes ruled by that origin itself. Someone who has already stopped - how can you kill him?" Shiki doesn't reply. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
His Origin, Suspension/Stillness, divides his internal world from the outside completely, making him “already dead,” because he outright rejects all forms of external interactions, including death itself. Yet, after straining her consciousness, Ryougi was able to perceive faint death lines on his physical body:
Strongly, harder than she had ever done before, Shiki glares at the man. Her brain may have overheated, because she observed the opponent till a portion of her consciousness went white, only then could she see it.... In the centre of his body, she can see a hole in the middle of his chest. The line went round and round like a child's doodling, tracing a circle at the same place. The result was what looked like a hole - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
An emotionless voice. The mage puts strength into his arm for the first time. Crackle, the sound of bone breaking can be heard. In that instant ---The right arm that attempted to pulverise the face of the girl called Ryougi Shiki, this time it really does get cut off.
"--- Mmm. " - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
Araya reveals the true power of MEoDP here:
"... Indeed, I was foolish. I should have had all the proof I needed after the events at the hospital. Whether it is dead or alive, if it moves you cut off the root of that motion. That is your ability. Even if I am a stopped organism, as long I exist like this there is a thread that permits my existence. If that is cut I would definitely die. The unique exception is this left arm, but even that can't be hidden forever. No matter which saint's bone it is as long as it functions there will always be a cause for that movement." - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
MEoDP does not care about life or death; it only cares if something exists at all or moves within reality.
Araya may lack a death concept, but his physical body interacts with reality, making it vulnerable to MEoDP no matter how powerful he is. We know later on that Araya still isn’t truly dead and will return, proving Shiki just killed his vessel:
“Gaha”, Araya vomited blood. The body, starting from the left side had begun to disappear and turn to ashes. “I didn’t make any spare bodies. If we are to meet again, it will be in the next generation.”
“There will be no such thing as a Magus by then. There won’t be a reunion. You will be alone in the end. Even so, you won’t stop?”
“Of course, I won’t accept defeat." - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
So, technically, Shiki did not kill Araya, but she destroyed the body anchoring his immortal essence to reality. The same applies to ORT; it may be immortal as a concept, but as long as it has a physical form or shape that can be perceived, Ryougi can kill that and prevent ORT from “moving” in reality.
We know this is the case with Types too, because their bodies have been destroyed by various conceptual weapons in Notes, such as Slash Emperor or Black Barrel. Those Types are not truly “dead,” but their vessels have been rendered non-functional, so they cannot manifest again in the same way, waiting for new conditions, like how Type-Venus manifested through the collective belief of a city as a humanoid being.
Roa even confirms this:
True Ancestors and Types may lack a predetermined lifespan, but they can still be killed by external causes. Their bodies can be forcibly injected with the concept of death by certain abilities or weapons and “stopped.” Even if someone is immortal, it remains subject to the fundamental truths of the universe, which eventually steer events toward the entity’s death. This is because the return to Nothingness is inevitable. Nothing lasts forever. This is the main theme of Kara no Kyoukai.
MEoDP literally skips the process of steering events and directly brings external death to any form of activity, regardless of whether they are immortal or not, including abstract and formless concepts:
That’s right. What makes Ryougi Shiki’s nature so different from Magi like them, was definitely not something like that. Her real nature is the ultimate nothingness that kills things that can’t be killed, even formless concepts.
“The thing that causes death.” That is the ability of Ryougi Shiki.
No weapon could interfere with a sealed world where the space was chained together infinitely with no exit. Because it had no shape, physical weapons that can only interact with physical objects couldn’t clash with it. But, Ryougi Shiki’s power was precisely one that targeted such formless things.
Then..?
“Yes, if you wanted to imprison Shiki, you should’ve trapped her in a box made of concrete.
If Shiki only had the physical strength of a young lady, all you had to do was simply prepare a hidden room enclosed by iron walls. But Araya Souren. You are a Magus, therefore you treat Magecraft as an absolute. Closing off space is meaningless. You used something ambiguous like that, but she can easily cut through that thing.” - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
In an anxious manner the mage came forward. Another step, even though he approaches Shiki there is no change in Shiki.... The man's talismans have just shrunk from three to two. The mage clicks his tongue in exasperation. He hadn't considered the possibility that Shiki's Mystic Eyes of Death Perception would be so powerful. To think that she could kill a concept like a ward which had no form, or life, that kind of absolute power ---.- Kara no Kyoukai: Chapter 05
Infinity is not 「 」. For infinity to remain infinite, the finite has to be defined. Without the finite there cannot exist infinity. Because things have an end, we can observe the thing called infinity.
Ryougi Shiki had been cast into infinity, she saw the impossible finite and cut through it.
Of course, there is no finite inside of the infinite. You can’t slash through what doesn’t exist, so escape from such a cage is impossible. But, if there is no finite then there is no infinite. Whether finite walls exist or not, an endless world holds no meaning before Ryougi Shiki.
If there really is no finite, then it’s not infinite but 「 」. If the finite can be comprehended, Shiki could detect and slash through it.
... The black hole that should have been absolute was just a small dark room to his opponent. The Magus felt ashamed of himself. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5 Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
Ryougi killed an infinite void. In case you didn't realize, this is MASSIVELY superior to simply lacking a concept of death: infinity lacks any kind of limits, with death being merely one of those limits. Yet Ryougi Shiki killed it because, once again, she only cares if something "is" at all. Infinity on its own is limitless, but the moment it manifests through that void (the equivalent of a 'body' or shape for the concept), it becomes subject to flaws and thus something that can be unraveled. Shiki did not kill infinity itself, but the way it manifests within reality.
THAT is the meaning behind that quote people mindlessly spam: ORT as an idea and as a consciousness cannot be killed, but the moment it tries to manifest or gains context to exist within the world, it can be erased from existence. It doesn't mean that it can just no-sell MEoDP. No; it’s going to be obliterated, it’s just that it’s not truly dead and can potentially return through another vessel, just like Araya Souren. Nothing more.
Ryougi cannot kill ORT’s truest essence, but neither can ORT do anything to Ryougi, as the moment it appears as something that can be described with words, Ryougi can kill it. Its only option is to wait and not manifest in reality until she dies of old age.
If that's your only win condition... well, I wouldn't be particularly proud of it.
Of course, this applies to Nanaya/Tohno Shiki as well; it’s just that Ryougi has the most explicit statements regarding those mechanics, but both of the Shikis can fold ORT with no issue.
This leads to my final point, the most ironic of all:
Chapter 4, the ripoff nobody caught on:
Many do not realize this, but ORT is actually an inferior execution of a concept already realized by Araya Souren back in the 90s.
How so? Well, ORT's entire point is being an alien invader who rewrites our world with its own.
But, this is literally what Araya does already:
"What came to mind was only a vast, burned wasteland. No matter how many steps I took, there were only endless corpses. The gravel spread along the riverbank was not stone but fragments of bone. The stench of death carried by the wind sought to fill all of existence; never ceasing. It was an age of conflict. A time before weapons were invented, where those who lived only today would fight with their own hands." - Kara no Kyoukai, Chapter 5
"Wherever I went, there was conflict, and the bodies of the dead were, without exception, discarded in cruel abandon. The weak in villages were commonly slaughtered by flocks of strong humans. It didn’t matter who killed whom. On the battlefield, good and evil held no meaning. All that mattered was how many had died and how many could not be saved." - Kara no Kyoukai, Chapter 5
Although Araya is average as a magus, his talents relating to Bound Field construction are exceptional.
A bound field divides what is inside from the outside. In order to construct a complete world from his own body, first Araya must complete himself.
Araya, who has no exceptional talents, is able to become a first-class bound field master by completing himself through the accumulation of ages and sheer determination.
That which divides the inside from the outside — Kara no Kyoukai is his story.
Araya symbolizes the paradoxical spiral, the most important event in this tale.
Talking about the impossible, what Araya accomplished is like achieving the pinnacle within a field while being completely oblivious of even the name of this subject field.
– Garden of sinners Pamphlet: Kara no Kyoukai Settings Glossary
Araya is an ancient entity from before civilization and history were defined, who has learned the technique to construct complete worlds from his own body, dividing the "inside" (his own vision and logic) from the "outside" (the external world). This results in him being an "alien" entity that passively rewrites reality to follow his rules:
In an anxious manner the mage came forward. Another step, even though he approaches Shiki there is no change in Shiki.... The man's talismans have just shrunk from three to two. The mage clicks his tongue in exasperation. He hadn't considered the possibility that Shiki's Mystic Eyes of Death Perception would be so powerful. To think that she could kill a concept like a ward which had no form, or life, that kind of absolute power ---.- Kara no Kyoukai: Chapter 05
Threads of the magus’s web stretched across the ground and space, between planes and dimensions. Any living thing touching those circular lines would have its power stopped. – Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
His barriers stretch between planes and dimensions, affecting every aspect of existence. These barriers are not physical constructs but conceptual laws without shape or form; fundamental principles that govern space itself and compel shape and form to conform. This is analogous to ORT’s Crystal Valley. The key difference lies in their nature: while ORT rewrites natural laws to mirror those of Mercury, Araya’s barriers suspend all laws entirely, halting the power of all living things in their tracks. Rather than substituting one system of rules for another, he freezes the very unfolding of any rules. And these are just his initial barriers. Over time, Araya refined these barriers by incorporating every form of dying, using them as blueprints that dictate how phenomena interact and cease:
What’s important is not the quantity of death. It is the quality of death. Tracing back to the source, the forms a death can take can be categorized into broader distinctions. Dissecting the possibilities of death into every possible route, I arrived at the sixty-four possibilities present here. Here I have gathered the people who shoulder those varieties of death. Therefore, this place is a microcosm of the whole world. By experiencing their suffering, I am able to comprehend their suffering. I am able to simplify the eight divine signs into four simple forms and arrive at Ryougi, the Two Forms.” - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
He then distilled these interaction principles further until he gained control over Yin and Yang itself; understanding how their interplay concludes and can be halted. This evolution transformed his barriers into a temple of Taiji, designed to contain Taiji-aligned entities like Ryougi:
A temple of Taiji. It could be called the artificial manifestation of the inner landscape of Araya Souren, who did not have a Reality Marble.
— Garden of sinners Pamphlet: Kara no Kyoukai Settings Glossary
“Wait Araya. I have one question. The original purpose of this apartment complex is to represent the Taiji in order to take in the Taiji, wasn’t it?”
“Indeed. I created this alien world to completely cut off Ryougi Shiki from the outside world. The other various functions are just accessories.” — Kara no Kyoukai, Chapter 5
The Taiji is a model meant to capture the totality of existence, all phenomena that can stem from Yin and Yang's interplay:
Taiji [Others]
A philosophy originated in ancient China, a graphical representation of the Yin-Yang theory. It attempts to capture the essence of everything on a conceptual level: those that are active are defined as Yang (white), and the opposite are defined as Yin (black).
The Taiji symbolizes opposing concepts such as day and night, light and darkness, male and female. At the same time, you may also call it a condensed version of the ever-changing, dynamic World.
Furthermore, there is a dot of Yin in Yang, and conversely a dot of Yang in Yin. This indicates that the distinction between Yin and Yang is not absolute. There is darkness even in light.
Taiji is the "one" at the beginning, the Yin and Yang that divide the "one" are called Liangyi (Ryougi). - Kara no Kyoukai Special Pamphlet - Encyclopedia: Taiji
This is a continuation on the subject of the Taiji, but the division of the chaotic 「 」 into two is Ryougi. In order to further stabilize this, and in order to increase the number of classes available, they divide it into four phenomena. They then further increase the complexity by cutting it into eight trigrams. Like this, they keep dividing by a base of two. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
So Araya's barriers became able to contain and impose his will over every conceivable phenomenon that could ever exist. Even Mugen, normally an infinite void, was chained together by Araya's Stillness, which manifests as a conceptual Möbius ring structure:
No weapon could interfere with a sealed world where the space was chained together infinitely with no exit. Because it had no shape, physical weapons that can only interact with physical objects couldn’t clash with it. But, Ryougi Shiki’s power was precisely one that targeted such formless things. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
“There is no need for concern. I have not imprisoned her in a room within the apartment complex. I have thrown her into Mugen, the infinite void, that connects the material world to the otherworld.
The primary purpose of this distorted alien world was to create a closed loop. By no means, no matter the method or the impact, could one escape from the darkness of Mugen. Even if Ryougi Shiki were to awaken, there is nothing she could do. Monitoring her is unnecessary. Besides, given her injuries, even standing would be difficult. Even if she wakes, her body will be incapable of moving properly.” - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
“Sure, you didn’t make a mistake. For you as a Magus, this is the best solution. But, what if the assumption itself is a mistake? You isolated Shiki? Not in a room somewhere in this apartment complex, but you isolated her in this apartment complex itself? A Bounded Field that achieves spacial isolation is already on the level of Magic. It’s a miracle that only a Bounded Field expert like you could create.
“Those who are trapped by the sealed space of a Mobius Ring can never get out from the inside. A closed world that’s enclosed by walls that can’t be destroyed by physical impacts, it’s a cage that’s impossible to escape from. You slapped Shiki in there, which gave you peace of mind. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
Instead of being a void where infinite phenomena can be hosted and link to different realities, Araya's Möbius Ring-like will turned it into an active prison that prevents those infinite possibilities from even unfolding or existing with freedom, cutting off all connections to outside realms.
This made his barriers cross into True Magic, completely transcending Gaia's authority and natural laws by becoming an independent universe:
“A twisted dimension of this level should be completely separated from the physical laws of the outside world.” (Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5)
“Sure, you didn’t make a mistake. For you as a Magus, this is the best solution. But, what if the assumption itself is a mistake? You isolated Shiki? Not in a room somewhere in this apartment complex, but you isolated her in this apartment complex itself? A Bounded Field that achieves spacial isolation is already on the level of Magic. It’s a miracle that only a Bounded Field expert like you could create. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
"Try listening to what someone is saying. A ward itself does no harm. That word, it originates from Buddhism. A ward is always something that isolates an area from the outside world, although it has somehow come to represent technique by which a magician protects his or her body.
Understand? I said this just before, but the best wards don't feel weird to a normal person. Let's call it "an idea which forces itself on the unconscious mind". The best of the best reach the stage of "disconnection of space"; but to go that far you are looking at magicians rather than sorcerers. Currently there's only one magician in this country, so basically that kind of ward just can't be formed. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 4
No, it wasn't magecraft. A mystery that used a twisted dimension of this level was already no longer on the level of magecraft.
This was --- that was right, a mystery of a province unreachable with today's knowledge. There was no doubt that this was an act of absolute power that human hands could not reach, magic. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
So, while ORT merely brings its own home's laws onto our planet, Araya Souren outright makes our planet irrelevant, replacing it with his own internal space, a self-contained, perfect understanding of the Taiji that contains the infinite potential of existence within a loop that invalidates any change not authorized by him.
ORT is like an alien machine or starship terraforming a planet; Araya is an ancient god that rules all of existence. There is no remote comparison here.
And as I already mentioned, Araya also lacks a concept of death, to the point he will return even as Ryougi destroyed his vessel:
The mage's discourse continues."As a reference, I do not die. My origin is 'suspension'. Someone who has woken to their origin becomes ruled by that origin itself. Someone who has already stopped - how can you kill him?" Shiki doesn't reply. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
“Gaha”, Araya vomited blood. The body, starting from the left side had begun to disappear and turn to ashes. “I didn’t make any spare bodies. If we are to meet again, it will be in the next generation.”
“There will be no such thing as a Magus by then. There won’t be a reunion. You will be alone in the end. Even so, you won’t stop?”
“Of course, I won’t accept defeat." - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5
It’s honestly mindblowing how incredibly overhyped ORT is, considering that everything that supposedly makes it so great is just an inferior variation of what Araya Souren already embodied in one of the very first Type-Moon works.
Stillness is the true cosmic concept of separation; the fundamental principle that allows for distinction and self-contained creation, effectively turning the user into an invincible personal universe.
Mercury itself exists only because of Stillness; it is the very archetype that makes distinct realities and existences possible.
Conclusion:
So what have we learned here?
The only official, canonical source regarding ORT clearly states it is not the strongest Ultimate One, and those beings themselves are not the pinnacle of power within the Type-Moon universe. Everything else claiming ORT as “the strongest” is just unfounded hype, often stemming from unofficial commentary or attempts to reconcile contradictions introduced by later re-imaginings, such as Fate/Grand Order. These re-imaginings alter fundamental lore without regard for the original material, presenting feats like creating solar storms or moving “supersonically” yet without breaking the sound barrier, hardly convincing evidence of supreme power. Even the commentators admit ORT’s “strongest” reputation is something handed down without certainty.
In truth, ORT is simply one of the Ultimate Ones, specifically the Type of Mercury. It’s neither above nor below that tier. While undeniably powerful, it is nowhere near the godlike “strongest in Type-Moon” status some attribute to it. ORT does not pose a serious threat to figures like the Shikis in direct combat, and many abilities it supposedly boasts have already been demonstrated more effectively by characters like Araya Souren. Additionally, ORT isn’t a character with will or personality: it’s a creature. So it’s puzzling why this spider is so heavily glorified without any solid official basis.
So whenever you see ORT tossed around among the “strongest beings in the universe,” ignore it. That reputation is built on myths, misinterpretations, and marketing hype; not on canonical fact.
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