Melty Blood Misconceptions: Ciel > Akiha?

This will be a short thread that I felt like making on a whim, since I recently revised the original Melty Blood.

There was a rather annoying Ciel wank I saw long ago, claiming Ciel is significantly stronger than Akiha, Sion, and Shiki based on their confrontations in Melty Blood. Some use the outcome of these fights as evidence that Ciel is above the three of them combined. However, is that truly what’s happening here? Let’s take a closer look at the situation:

So, there are two potential outcomes to Ciel’s fight with Akiha, Sion, and Shiki. If the player wins, a specific cutscene plays out, which is often cited by those arguing that Ciel is superior. Let’s break down what happens in that scene:

As you can see, in the dialogue, Ciel opens the conversation by stating that if things escalate further, both sides will be defeated, including herself. This reveals that Ciel’s primary concern is avoiding a deadly conflict and keeping things from spiraling out of control. She does not want to engage in a full-on fight to the death.

On the other hand, Akiha is much more determined and willing to fight until the end, as she declares. However, Ciel questions if Akiha truly wants to turn this into a lethal confrontation. Sion and Shiki both intervene, trying to reason with Akiha, acknowledging that if Ciel stops holding back, the three of them will be defeated.

It’s important to note that Akiha is not fighting at full capacity either: She is still in her base form, meaning she’s not tapping into the full extent of her abilities or using her Plunder (As Ciel is not even immortal anymore), as this isn’t intended to be a deadly battle. BOTH Ciel and Akiha are holding back, avoiding escalating the conflict into a lethal battle, implying that the fight is not a true representation of their full strength.

Akiha, however, is stubbornly intent on pushing the fight "to the end." If she continues down that path, Shiki and Sion would likely be defeated, while Akiha and Ciel could potentially end up killing each other. This is why Shiki and Sion are trying to reason with her. Akiha’s only response is a silent stare, as seen in the final image.

This doesn’t imply that Ciel can easily defeat Akiha or even Shiki at all. Shiki's fighting style and power fluctuate depending on how much he embraces his Nanaya instincts and his willingness to kill, making him unpredictable (And he absolutely curbstomps Ciel at his peak, but that's a topic for another time). What this situation does make clear is that Ciel only has a decisive advantage over Sion.

But if you are still not convinced, here is the second outcome, which takes place if the player loses this fight:

This scene is far more revealing about what’s truly happening. Despite Sion and Shiki being defeated, Akiha remains unharmed and fully prepared to continue fighting Ciel. Shiki is even surprised at her ability to keep going, which could imply he underestimated her, especially without her demonic powers in the previous outcome.

Akiha then transforms into Crimson Red Vermillion and tells Shiki she will hold off Ciel while he escapes with Sion, planning to retreat afterward.

Once they’ve escaped, Shiki instructs Sion to assess her injuries, noting that Ciel WASN'T holding back and may have caused significant damage. However, Sion reassures him that she’s fine, though she’s more concerned about Akiha’s safety. Shiki comforts her by pointing out that neither Ciel nor Akiha would actually fight to the death, meaning the conflict will eventually resolve.

This further supports the idea that, even in the other outcome, the primary concern was to prevent the fight from escalating and causing severe consequences. Sion then mentions Tatari, expressing concern that the Akiha they encountered might not have been the real one but a Tatari version. She explains that if it was indeed a Tatari, it would seek to destroy the real Akiha, and even Ciel would likely be killed. This is because Akiha unconsciously holds back her full strength, while a Tatari version wouldn’t restrain itself. Shiki agrees, stating that if Akiha gets serious, not even Ciel will be safe.

In conclusion, this scene not only fails to show that Ciel is overwhelmingly superior to Akiha, but it actually implies that Akiha could very well be above Ciel if she were to fight seriously. This aligns with a substantial amount of evidence suggesting that Akiha is, in fact, superior to Ciel.

What evidence supports this? Well, in the Tsukihime Visual Novel, Akiha completely annihilates SHIKI. Although not as powerful as when Roa is in control, SHIKI was still strong enough to challenge Ciel in the Akiha route. Ciel herself mentions that they've fought multiple times, with SHIKI always managing to escape, and she expresses uncertainty about being able to kill him quickly. Some might argue that Kohaku was providing her with energy, but remember that Akiha in Tsukihime was only able to use the bare minimum of her demonic powers since she was sharing half of her life force with Shiki. The energy Kohaku provided would simply allow Akiha to use her normal level of power, despite her life force being halved.

Furthermore, in Kohaku's route, Akiha absorbs Roa and accesses her true full power, fully inverting. In this form, Shiki explicitly notes that the Akiha who killed SHIKI "pales in comparison" to her inverted self. This form is said to have the potential to rival or even exceed Red Arcueid:

“In one of the routes, she ended up inverting and demonstrating her power to its fullest extent That dreadful form, with its fluttering vermillion hair, is probably capable of exceeding even a rampaging Arcueid.” - Tsukihime Plud Period

And while it does only say she "probably" is capable of exceeding Red Arcueid, the fact that's even on the table means she is in the same league as her generally.

It’s also important to note that this comparison is not about the enraged Arcueid seen in the Ciel Route, where she was weakened. The same source that compares Akiha to Arcueid uses the term "rampaging" to describe Red Arcueid:

(Since Berserk Arcueid is normally just Arcueid rampaging around in a frenzy, she’s a special case.) - Tsukihime Dokuhon Plus Period: Tsukihime Dictionary Revised

Another entry further clarifies that what we see in the Ciel Route is merely a glimpse of what an actual rampaging Red Arcueid would be like:

Arcueid after going into a wild frenzy and becoming totally indiscriminate with her rage. “Evil” Arcueid. You can catch a glimpse of this in the Ciel Route, though it seems she still had enough composure to recognize Shiki. - Tsukihime Dokuhon Plus Period: Tsukihime Dictionary Revised

However, it should be noted that Akiha exceeding Red Arcueid likely refers to their sheer physical and raw power, not Arcueid’s ability to manipulate Gaia’s natural laws. Red Arcueid’s reality-warping abilities transcend conventional abilities and stats, making them a separate class of power that Akiha’s plundering abilities cannot directly counter.

Even so, Akiha could potentially defeat Red Arcueid by using her plundering ability to absorb Arcueid's powers and abilities before she has a chance to alter the laws of reality. Akiha’s ability to drain the "concept" of her opponent, including their life force and abilities, could severely weaken Arcueid, diminishing her regenerative capabilities and her connection to her True Ancestor powers. However, the key challenge for Akiha lies in how quickly she can act, as Red Arcueid possesses the ability to manipulate the fundamental laws of reality itself. If Arcueid manages to alter reality in her favor before Akiha can drain her enough, she would regain control of the battle, using her reality-warping abilities to nullify Akiha's powers. Therefore, Akiha’s success depends on draining Arcueid's strength fast enough to prevent her from rewriting the laws of existence, otherwise Arcueid would likely win with her superior ability to manipulate the very fabric of reality.

Oh, and Akiha’s statement on her Origami not working on Heroic Spirits is also a lie from the wiki, as the source it cites predates Fate and doesn’t mention Heroic Spirits at all.

And even the actual statement about Akiha struggling to restrain Arcueid refers specifically to Origami's environmental entrapment effect, not Akiha’s core plundering ability. 

Origami enhances Akiha's power by extending red threads that wrap around the target and its surroundings to prevent escape:

"At their maximum output, these threads are capable of covering not just the target, but the entire environment the target is in, making escape impossible – thus the name Origami, or 'Caging Hair.'"- Tsukihime Dokuhon Plus Period - Caging Hair [Unusual talent],

However, against beings like Arcueid, whose spiritual rank vastly exceeds normal limits, this function becomes ineffective:

"Against somebody like Arcueid whose spiritual rank is on a whole other level, it would merely be a hindrance similar to the world being filled with spider webs." -Tsukihime Dokuhon Plus Period- Caging Hair [Unusual talent],

However, this limitation does not apply to Akiha’s actual plundering ability, which is independent of the threads themselves. Akiha's power allows her to drain heat, life force, and even abstract elements like the soul or concepts. This effect is activated by sight and begins instantly upon visual contact:

Akiha is a demon hybrid that "plunders" the heat of any living being that she is able to visually confirm, and Origami is the name for the maximum output state of this ability. Though the plundering is based on sight, if somebody with spiritual vision were to observe it, they would see it as something similar to red threads twining around and consuming the target in a fiery aura. -Tsukihime Dokuhon Plus Period- Caging Hair [Unusual talent],

The red threads are a visual representation, not the mechanism itself. Nanaya Shiki describes it as something that activates the moment she sees the target:

"I see now----that's what it does." There is no way to escape this red hair. When she sees me, it is already wrapped around me. It is wrong to imagine dodging it or avoiding it. If it's there, it's there. If it's not, it's not. Like the air touching my skin, the red hair is already wrapped around me. Therefore, there was no way to escape from that attack. If there is anything I can do, it is---before Akiha steals something from me, I have to cut that pipeline...... that red hair of hers. The interval between her seeing something and stealing from it is only an instant. But if the target isn't clear in her vision, there is a small time before she actually steals from me. Before she can steal too much from me, I cut the hair to avoid a fatal wound - Tsukihime - Far Side: Kohaku Route - 10/Locks of Hair

Think of it like a video game prompt, such as how enemies may glow and show an indicator to use a specific ability when you're in range. Similarly, Akiha’s red hair acts as a prompt: it appears the moment she’s within range to begin plundering. Once within range, she can start draining the target’s heat or life force the moment she wills it. Then, with Origami, she can "pump" power into the threads, turning them into an active restraining force that can cover the surroundings. This is what Arcueid resists.

In summary, the statement about Origami being a hindrance to Arcueid refers to its restraining function, not Akiha’s plundering abilities, which remain effective even against high-ranking spiritual entities. Arcueid can resist the physical restraint, but not the plundering itself, which operates on a conceptual level and is described as unavoidable, like air that surrounds and touches your body.

Going back to Ciel, in the Tsukihime manga, we further see Akiha actively fighting Ciel up close in just her base form:

You could even argue that Akiha holds a slight advantage in pure hand-to-hand combat. While Ciel failed to land a hit on Akiha, who skillfully evaded her attacks, Akiha successfully landed a kick that knocked Ciel away. Akiha’s following CRV transformation shifts the battle dynamic, but she ultimately loses primarily due to Ciel's immortality and her own internal restraint. Even Ciel acknowledges that Akiha had the potential to vaporize her if she had been truly determined to do so:

So both the manga and the Visual Novel suggests Akiha's superiority over Ciel. This trend continues in the various Melty Blood, where CRV Akiha is seen defeating characters on Roa's level. The same Roa that played darts with Ciel and used her as a chair lol.

Finally, in the Melty Blood manga, Akiha casually defeats a tatari of POWERED Ciel:

Notice that Akiha even confirms she wasn't lacking from the original.

To summarize: Base Akiha = < Base Ciel <<< Powered Ciel = Roa << CRV Akiha << 100% Arcueid = < Full Power Akiha, whose unrestricted plundering can affect even inanimate objects and functions as an existential drain, absorbing even the target's very concept:

100% Arcueid can still beat her by manipulating the laws of Gaia's reality, but she'd have to do it faster than Akiha can drain her.

So no, Ciel isn’t “stomping” Akiha, not even in her wildest dreams. Let alone overpower her in a 3v1, which is mental asylum-worthy.